This is a copy of a post I left on Windows Experts Community for Windows Media Center. It is posted here because of the email response I’ve gotten over the weekend. Thank you everyone for your gracious support. It really means a lot.
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I have resisted posting or saying anything in public for a long time now in the hope that MediaMall, makers of PlayOn, would reconsider their ill directed war on tubeCore and WMC. They haven’t reconsidered, but have doubled down on their mischief, even going so far as to blame tubeCore for the problems that users are seeing.
Full disclosure: I am biased and a bit pissed because, frankly, I hate bullies.
A few months ago I received an email from the owner of MediaMall with a demand: remove Watch Later (video caching) from tubeCore because that feature will compete with a future release of PlayOn. I tried to agree on a compromise: the user could disable Watch Later, or we could even detect PlayOn and remove it automatically.
That wasn’t good enough. The owner of MediaMall wanted the feature gone or else.
The “or else” was the kicker. I refuse to hold the users of tubeCore, or my company, hostage to the whims of another company.
After that exchange MediaMall began to block Windows Media Center add-ins from PlayOn, and first blaming Windows Media Center, and then tubeCore, calling it “somewhat unstable”, as if after months of running on thousands of Windows Media Center PC’s and extenders, tubeCore would suddenly stop working.
So you know, there is nothing wrong with tubeCore. It works with other DLNA Media Servers such as Twonky, Tversity, J River, and PS3 Media Server. The whole reason PlayOn doesn’t work with tubeCore is that the owner of PlayOn wants to dictate features to Media Players. And if you ask me, he’s just picking on little guys.
68 Comments
Below is the email I sent PlayOn. I would suggest others send similar emails to PlayOn. We can make a difference if we all ACT.
Dear David,
We’re sorry you feel this way. There are other alternatives to using Tubecore. You can use XBMC, the vmcPlayIt plugin for Windows Media Center, or any other software that connects to DLNA/UPnP media servers. Tubecore has never been a supported “device” for PlayOn, but we are happy to work with the developer to resolve any issues.
Kind regards,
Chris
PlayOn Support
http://www.playon.tv
On 9/12/2011 1:31 AM, XXXXXXXXX wrote:
As a playon premium (lifetime) subscriber, I am very upset by the fact that MediaMall has decided to block tubecore from working with PlayOn. Please do not bother to tell me that it is tubecore’s fault or instability, when we all know that is not the case. You should know that Tubecore is used by many Playon users to integrate into WMC and not just as competition to your “watch later” service. Both of your companies are small companies, and while I am sure MM doesn’t like getting stepped on by the Big Guys, aren’t you doing the same thing to a developer even smaller then you? This is just not right. While I had encouraged several of my friends to sign up for PlayOn premium, I have now reconsidered and told them to look elsewhere.
I understand sticking by your principles, however it is the customers who are ultimately affected. We just want a stable media center option for using PlayOn. The Watch Later functionality was never something I wasn’t overly interested in, (didn’t work from extenders anyway), and also not interested in PlayLater. While extra features are nice, I’ll choose losing a feature over losing the whole product. Please work this out with PlayOn. PlayOn wants encryption. I don’t think anyone would disagree that encryption should be there. If that is not possible, as you’ve stated, you can remove Watch Later for PlayOn users. According to PlayOn they are open to discussing that option. Whatever it is, please work it out. Your customers will thank you for it!
Hi Curtis, so is this it? Are you just letting it go? Come on, let’s get tubecore back in for playon! I know your pissed. But people want a WMC plugin for playon, and you are the only one good enough to do it properly. Let’s face it – you are our only hope in this mess. PlayOn may be jerks, but they are the only ones in their niche market too. From everything I’ve heard from playon they are totally willing to bring back Tubecore as long as it has recording encryption or removal of watch later when used with playon server. Come on, let’s get this done. Your head can still be held high. Your story is out there and every tubecore customer knows that you have not backed down from the fight.
PlayOn must have others bullying them if the issue is encryption. Agree, I don’t need play later either.
I canceled [all] three of my playon subscriptions (I have a lot of users on my video systems). I still have a lifetime around if I need to use it for something and at least using it won’t put more money in their pocket.
Anyone know the right settings for traversity to get a good hulu picture? That’s all I really needed playon for… a good bluray does everything else playon does… and they do it better…
Please make a version that’s acceptable to playon so that tubecore is unblocked. I’ve got a lot of infrastructure HW and $s at stake here. Not to mention having to swallow crow when my wife tells me I never should’ve got rid of those comcast dvrs. Think of the real little guys, us who bought tubecore and playon I’d have purchase neither, had they not worked together. I used to recommend my solution to others, not in the current state. Please fix this.
I’m also agree with John. It is not fair to disable All the versions (even with problems) to us paying customers. Tubecore and playon was allways advertised to work together and that’s why I bought them too. We should all get a full refund from both if we cannot use anything at all even thou imperfect.
Guys, he already does have a tubecore that should be acceptable to them. The original version (vs. version 2). They blocked it too… ‘just because’. They really have no good excuse for blocking it too.
I use the original version myself.
John/Jim,
Pick up a Sony bluray with dlna. I got one around Christmas for 99. You can use it with playon and…. you get a DVD player.
Well….than playon is up to something else.People running old linksys extenders(at a big initial cost) are doomed. Screwed by microsoft,linksys, and now………
Should I do this OR ELSE??????????
I sent the following reply email to PlayOn Support, Public Relations and Public Relations:
I have been spending the last few weeks trying to get vmcPlayit to work on Windows Media Center 7 as per your recommendation. I have continual problems watching content as any app within PlayOn (example, Comedy Central, TNT, etc) consistently gives me an error indicating that my version of Media Center is not compatible. I have tried reinstalling widows 7, I have tried new codecs, new everything. . . I have even tried older versions of vmcPlayit with no success. Since I have been a long time subscriber to Tubecore (Tubecentric.tv), I started doing some research regarding Tubecore, Windows Media Center and PlayOn and found out that there is some kind of trivial argument between the two companies (http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/25/p/101958/544352.aspx). It appears that PlayOn is essentially blocking Tubecore. Tubecore is the absolute best compliment to PlayOn for Windows Media Center! As I have been reading a number of online posts, the Windows Media Center community is in uproar as we are now left with no options . . . . in other words, PlayOn is useless to us and we are now left to find other alternatives. I am one of tens of thousands of users who have gotten rid of their television cable subscriptions, embraced windows media center and are seeking the best applications to provide television and movie content to our home entertainment environment. Windows Media Center is the most preferable because of its flexibility of embracing any kind of available content applications (Boxee, NetFlix, Blockbuster, Vudu, SecondRun.tv, etc). As a PlayOn customer, I am very disappointed. As a technology professional, I am shocked that PlayOn would limit itself in not being compatible with one of the most widely distributed media content in the world (Windows Media Center via Windows Vista and Windows 7).
If there is anything that can be done about this, I would really appreciate PlayOn’s commitment to hear my concerns. Thank you in advance for your help.
Sincerely,
Justin Balog
I still tvsity might be what we need. It does hulu. Everything including new toasters seems to do netflix (so odds are your next tv or dvd player can do netflix on its own… if it is android based you’ll also get tv.com and others via that)… Only snag; I have not found the right settings to get a good picture with tvsity via wmc extenders.
AMEN Justin……… I also am a IT tech/manger for a MAJOR food company. People should stop being promised that software/hardware will do one thing and then have the rug pulled out from under them forcing them to start all over again at our own expense and use un-wanted software/hardware that always worked in the first place!!!!!!!!!
Comon you honest people……let’s here from you……let’s stop this ring of fire that’s been going on a long time!!!!….you are NOT the little people
Oh…Justin I do believe in you. Because your honest. But, you will fail. And I.ve heard roomers that microsoft will pull mce from Win8. If they do, Microsoft WILL be hated Forever!!!!!! Greed WILL WIN
Here’s your chance, you new vendors. Give us a OS that does what the people Want, and we well be with you FOREVER(as long as you don’t fail us!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know what….better yet, you other os people that microsoft has put down, please show the people that you Will give us what we want and we Will change. We don’t need all this junk out there anyway!!!!!!!!
Plese people…I know I’ve been asking alot but I’ve been in THE Business since punch cards was used. I’ve been a Tech and management for 25+ years. I know what goes on behind closed doors. This is not good!!!!!We as users will always pay the price. If we let this go we will pay for the rest of our lives. Corp. and company’s donot care about us. They have a bunch of collage grads that are trained to do this stuff. The cable and Satilite co. have been making us pay outrages prices for watching tv. Web tv is new but they will get us too in time. The corp world is not intereted in us ,only profit. WE have payed alot and the prices keep going up. They will stop us nomatter what it takes. Don’t you have more important bills to pay than TV????. Computer Sicence has allowed us to be creative, but now they stop us from keeping the prices down. Don”t let us be bullied into conforming to there rules. We all have alot of bills to pay without being taken to the cleaners. Cable used to be about 14 dollars now 80 or more..Everything is a small monthy charge, what a joke. The banks messed up the housing market,the goverment gives them our money and top execs buy new boats. Please, the solution will always be for us to pay. WE ALWAYS PAY!!! Don’t be fooled anymore and don’t make these companies any richer. Don’t be soft and believe everything you hear. When you can’t pay you bills, nobody cares. The world consists of the allmidy buck, and not moral ideas anymore. Make these people responsible for there actions and stop being used.
I’m not overly happy with Tubecore. Still waiting for my license and the developer refuses to even reply. That being said there really needs to be a PlayOn front end for media center. The software is useless to me without it.
Well…..enough with the comments. We NEED a WORKING wmc interface ASAP…….no more video decoder errors from win media player.It worked before……WHAT’s THE STATUS ?????????????
Hooray!! Just got an email from TubeCentric about the release of version 2.5 that will disable Watch Later for PlayOn users. I’m only guessing that that will mean that PlayOn will actually work again. I guess proof will be when we can get it and see if PlayOn has unblocked it. Our persistance in this forum and the PlayOn forum just may have paid off! Thank you Curtis, you are the bigger man.
If you have an older version of PlayOn it will still work with tubecore 1.x. Just limited for some things. i.e You can only view queue in netfix. Not browse.
actually any version of playon prior to 3.4.14.2443 works even with tubecore v2+ but like you say all the bug fixes that playon has implemented since this version will not work.
This is great news! Thanks for hanging in there and supporting us Curtis! I know this has been frustrating.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!Thank you Curtis….I’m running Win 7 with playon 3.3.9(only one I have). Some of it works. If playon will let us get older versions,We can inch up alittle more. Only thing I see is mpeg data is being passed insted of mpeg2……..Maybe win media player 12 needs it to stop the video decoder error being displayed.
And tell playon to STOP the auto update feature…. it only puts us back to there current version that dosen’t work for all of us!!!!!!!!!!!!
Listen you guys……….tryed talkin to playon…I see why the OR ELSE attitude wins. We don’t want vmcplayit or we would have it in the first place!!!!!!! WE WANT TUBECORE. They say the eng. are working on it, we will see…..Forgive me for my spelling but I’m a coder….my spelling is terrible
If this could be coded in RPG or COBAL I would have it fixed by now………..
If I had OPEN SOURCE CODE and a compiler for BASIC….I’D fix this too…….
And as for you dma2100 users…it WILL work just don’t let it “Phone home”….change your network settings manually……..
Now I helped you guys….. now you help me….Tubecore is trying to help……get playon
opps……..I pushed the enter key to soon…get playon to cooperate…..
You know what… this tubecore and playon forum is crap……meet in one place so all interested can be heard…together!!!!!
I Have college degrees too…..any many years of experance………and training by the best…….IBM,HP,special training payed by my employer who believe in me..and many more
Thx Jim? BTW, 06/11 of PlayOn does not work with 2.5.
Version 3.4.21.2534 Released 6 October 2011
My career has been in the Information Tech. feild (Busness) not in the percise transmission of video/audio. But if it helps,mgeg is used in vcr quality format and mpeg2 is used in dvd and hdtv with interlaced video/audio formats. thx deals with mostly multi channel(suround sound) formats. I cannot spend anymore time on this,(i have my own work) but hope Playon will restore fuctionaly to wmc so we can use our extenders properly and keep our oper cost down… good luck….bye
Curtis, PlayOn still not working with 2.5. PlayOn says they are trying to confirm that Watch Later is actually disabled and are trying to contact you to help. PLEASE work with them so we can get this resolved.
I’ve tried 2.5 and it does not remove the Watch Later button. But if you try to use Watch Later it errors with media not available. Is that how the “disable Watch Later” is implemented?
I am busy but I looked at playon forum. The person called “broncosaddict” tellsit like it is!!!!!. He expresses my exact feelings. Words I fail to get in writing. I am proud to call you all(PRO or not and if you allow me) my brothers and sisters in exposing the truth….Keep the faith. BYE again.
Oh…as for the version thing…Does microsoft make XP unavalible because it is a OLD version???????????? YOU GOT TO KIDDING
GOT TO BE KIDDING
Now this is just getting stupid……..
Listen you win7 PRO users…if you go to the microsoft website you can download xp and run it at the same time with win7 running…and its free……….
You know guys, I would get onto the playon forum and have a REAL battle but I’m tired of hearing the same thing over and over. It’s a broken record!!!!! As I heard in a movie….THE BOY JUST AN’t GOT A HEART…SHOULD BE PUT DOWN…….
Quote from PlayOn forum today:
“We are not testing Tubecore; There isn’t anything to test because the changes don’t appear to do much. We are waiting to discuss the changes with the developer of Tubecore. He has still not contacted us.”
Well, 2.5 on Vista does not play with PlayO, for me.
All I want is to use my DMA2100 extender. vmcPlayit has many problems with the extender.
I find that I can get tubeCore and PlayOn to work together if I put them on seperate machines, so Playon may also be looking at the IP address of the stream and if it’s local (127.) using that to mess the stream to tubeCore. Or not.
BTW Jim: Did you go to school on Colo Spgs ?
BTW2: How to use the older version of PlayOn and keep it from updating itself ?
BTW3: I don’t care for PlayLater either, just get them both working ’cause I’m not buying either until they work together and in the mean time, you ought to remove mention of PlayOn from your website since it doesn’t work with it.
Ok, I’m done for now.
I run Windows 7 Pro x64 with tubeCore 2.5. I run PlayOn in the “XP Mode” virtual machine inside Windows 7, and I have no problem recording streams from PlayOn with tubeCore’s Watch Later feature. I’m running PlayOn 3.4.22. Both Windows 7 and Windows XP get separate IP addresses from my router, so maybe Dave’s right about the IP address thing.
The only trouble I have with Watch Later is that if I remove a Watch Later item while it’s being recorded, tubeCore’s stream-recoding child process Run.mpeg2dvrms.exe continues to record the stream anyway, and the parent process tubeCentric.Service.exe dies.
One thing I did notice is that tubeCore won’t play a video I recorded from PlayOn unless PlayOn is running. But I don’t mind that.
I’m so tired of this, I at this point just want it to work too.. Working on many configs and I don’t have the time for this…..Dave write down your network settings from your dma2100. Change your mask to 255.255.255.0 change your PRI AND SEC DNS to 0.0.0.0 your IP and Gateway will depend on your switch or hub address….If you are using vmcplayit you cannot have tubecore installed on ANY local network machines……..use playons latest version.
Dave, Thanks for the tip! Tubecore does work just fine with the latest version of PlayOn as long as PlayOn is on a separate PC!! I think you’re right they only block when playon sees it as a local connection.
Wow guys! You all are great!
At this point it is up to Jeff Lawrence at MediaMall to decide to stop bullying his customers and just let you use the app you paid for.
We removed the Watch Later feature when PlayOn is detected. So the “problem” MediaMall has with tubeCore has been eliminated.
Thank-you Curtis. I know it’s been terrible on you and nomatter what happens, we all believe in you…..WE thank you for helping broken systems or old Tech. and know your sacrifice is great………
They say it doesn’t disable and are wanting to talk with you about it. Can you please talk with them so they can stop using that excuse?
I gotta say, PlayOn is correct. 2.5 doesn’t remove or disable Watch Later when used with PlayOn. I’m using Watch Later right now to save an Episode of Big Bang Theory. …it’s working just fine, but not supposed to…. Tubecore and PlayOn are on separate PC’s with PlayOn’s latest release and Tubecore 2.5.
opps…sounds like a “hole’ in programming logic. Interesting guys. nice find.
Yep, guys, you’re right. I will get it fixed and put up an update ASAP.
Just a thought….I looked at playon fourm..looks like there’s alittle tiff over pricing……….oh too bad. Remember the movie “network???” I’m mad as Hell and I ain’t going to take it anymore!!!!….Just a thought……….
okay last thought….when’s the last time you heard from a “support group”…
“I’m sorry you feel that way”
“unavalible”
“unfortunately”
How about this….I DON’T CARE…it’s my money, and I’m a paying customer…
That’s all I have to say……..
I got this as response from PlayOn:
The problem with Tubecore currently is that it identifies itself as simply a media extender, and doesn’t provide a version or other information that we can check so we know if the play later feature is disabled. If they can change their plugin to identify itself in a way that we can tell it’s the new version, we’d be able to unblock it and have it work again.
What error are you getting when the vmcPlayIt link fails during install?
Regards,
Fred
PlayOn Support
http://www.playon.tv
On 10/17/2011 2:25 PM, Andrew Volkov wrote:
Hi Fred
is there a way to make tubeCore to work. their support told me they removed the feature for plat later so there should not problem any more i believe.
I don’t know the true story behind this issue, it is frustrating though, as first and foremost Playon couldn’t care less about us HTPC users to actually give us a decent app or plugin for MCE, secondly VMCplayit is so buggy and horrid to look at its just not worth talking about. I think Tubecore looks polished enough to do the job we all want from a HTPC. I did create a post to see what would happen, and the final comment would suggest that they would allow this to work, again without knowing who said what we are just spectators.
I love tubecore and I like the playon idea I just wish they could work together, as this is our last hope with playon and MCE it would seem.
http://www.playon.tv/forum/feedback/praisecomplaints/are-playon-bullies
To me it’s obvious that Playon is the bad guy here. 2 years ago people were upset when they charged for another lifetime upgrade. That made me wonder, but I cut them some slack. Then it was the forced upgrades. That was the second black mark. Now they are intentional tampering with my other software-breaking something intentionally so they can sell some new product? How come some lawyer has not hit them with a class action?
Enough is enough-they have proven to be unethical and probably illegal as well.. What is a good alternative that will do Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and work with Tubecore? That’s all I need. Thanks.
Thanks for the 2.6 update!
But PlayOn is still not planning on allowing TubeCore until they talk with Curtis.
See PlayOn Forum post:
http://www.playon.tv/forum/feedback/playlater-beta/recorded-okay-broke-my-extender?page=2
Chris’s response to the 2.6 release: “Like we said above, nothing will change until we have discussed it with the developer. There is nothing for us to look at until then.”
Curtis, please communicate with them so can not use this excuse anymore.
Plus 1, this stinks. I’m really not sure what the PlayOn folks are so scared of.
It is unprofessional to ignore e-mails !!!!
Any response yet??
——– Original Message ——–
Subject: Tubecore and Playon
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:52:13 -0400
From: Tom
Reply-To: tdoyle0605@aol.com
To: tubeCentric.tv
CC: support@playon.tv
Curtis,
It seems to me that the ball is in your court. Is the strategic plan for your business to render your product useless to a large majority of your customers? Please put your pride aside, understand what your customers need and make strategic alliances to put your customers first and thereby move your business forward. You are running a business and need to act rationally, not emotionally.
I received a response from Playon in under 1/2 hour. I am still awaiting yours.
-Tom Doyle
——– Original Message ——–
Subject: Re: Iphone4 and other questions
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:36:26 -0400
From: PlayOn Support (Chris)
To: tdoyle0605@aol.com
Dear Tom,
The changes that have been made to Tubecore are superficial and we still have not heard from the developer. Until the developer has contacted us we cannot change anything. We will be happy to discuss the changes with him.
Kind regards,
Chris
PlayOn Support
http://www.playon.tv
On 10/18/2011 6:12 PM, Tom wrote:
> Skip,
>
> Tubecore has now released a version that detects Playon and disables the “Watch Later” feature. Playon is still blocking Tubecore as an acceptable media player. Will you please stop holding users hostage and now resume supporting Tubecore? You both are the best at what you do. Please consider first what is best for your customers in your decisions. If you don’t, someone will.
>
> -Tom Doyle
>
>
>
> On 10/15/2011 5:25 PM, PlayOn Support(Skip) wrote:
>> Hello Tom,
>>
>> For VMCPlayIt to function with Playon you will need to first uninstall TubeCore.
>>
>> PlayOn has always blocked features that “copy” or “record” content. There are many reasons we don’t want PlayOn content recorded to unencrypted video files. For example, the PlayStation 3′s “Copy” function has been disabled for years and vmcPlayIt’s record function is similarly disabled. We would have done the same for Tubecore, but the Tubecore developers chose to mimic other devices instead of uniquely identifying Tubecore. The “Watch Later” record function identifies itself the same as a regular play from a device (not WMC).
>>
>> We contacted the developer and asked them to change that. If Tubecore had a unique user agent then we could both block Watch Later and Tubecore would work a lot better for regular use. Mimicing other devices is actually the cause of many of Tubecore’s issues. We have to do some special things for certain devices. These changes don’t work well with Tubecore, but Tubecore identifies itself as one of these devices. They told us they would not change anything, so we were forced to block Tubecore as a whole. At this point the developer of TubeCore has not been in contact with us.
I have been contacted by MediaMall and have made a requested change to the tubeCore. MediaMall is now testing tubeCore and they have assured me that PlayOn will be re-enabled as soon as possible.
PlayOn says they have nothing yet to test.
Chris has commented on: “Recorded okay but broke my extender”
Subject: Recorded okay but broke my extender
—-
We are not testing Tubecore as we have nothing to test. He has still not
created a new release that can be tested. Once he does then we can test it.
crickets!